Legislature(1993 - 1994)
04/06/1993 01:00 PM House CRA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS
STANDING COMMITTEE
April 6, 1993
1:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Harley Olberg, Chairman
Representative Jerry Sanders, Vice-Chairman
Representative John Davies
Representative Cynthia Toohey
Representative Ed Willis
Representative Bill Williams
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Con Bunde
OTHER HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Ron Larson
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
*HJR 37 Urging Congress to enact H.R. 1033 or similar
legislation authorizing construction grants for
publicly-owned treatment works in economically
distressed rural communities.
PASSED FROM COMMITTEE WITH A DO PASS
RECOMMENDATION
*HB 173 "An Act exempting certain charitable gaming
activity from municipal sales and use taxes."
PASSED FROM COMMITTEE WITH NO RECOMMENDATIONS
HB 70 "An Act relating to state impact aid for
municipalities: and providing for an effective
date."
NOT HEARD
Bills Held from Previous Calendars:
HB 209: "An Act relating to community health aide grants."
PASSED FROM COMMITTEE WITH A DO PASS
RECOMMENDATION
(* first public hearing)
WITNESS REGISTER
Representative Ron Larson
Capitol Building, Room 502
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
Phone: 465-3878
POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor of HB 173
Rick Urion, Lobbyist
City of Bethel
321 Highland Drive
Juneau, AK 99801
Phone: 586-6366
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 173
Ron Pagenkopf
Juneau Youth Activities Co-op
P.O. Box 33206
Juneau, AK 99803
Phone: 586-2027
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 173
Myra Munson, Lobbyist
Alaska Native Health Board
229 4th Street
Juneau, Alaska 99801
586-5880
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 209
Deborah Erickson
Health Program Specialist II
Division of Public Health
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110610
Juneau, AK 99801-0610
Phone: 465-3090
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 209
Roger McKowan, Legislative Aide
to Representative Lyman Hoffman
Capitol Building, Room 503
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
Phone: 465-4453
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke on behalf of prime sponsor of HJR
37
Keith Kelton, Director
Division of Facility Construction and Operation
Department of Environmental Conservation
410 Willoughby Ave., Suite 105
Juneau, AK 99801-1795
Phone: 465-5180
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HJR 37
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HJR 37
SHORT TITLE: FED MONEY FOR RURAL WATER/SEWER PROJECTS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) HOFFMAN,MacLean,Foster,
Olberg,Williams,Davidson,Nicholia,Mackie,Ulmer,Brown,
Carney,Brice, Menard,Sanders,Willis,G.Davis,B.Davis,Davies
TITLE: Urging the Congress to enact H.R. 1033 or similar
legislation authorizing construction grants for publicly-
owned treatment works in economically distressed rural
communities.
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/30/93 853 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
03/30/93 853 (H) CRA, HES
03/31/93 903 (H) COSPONSOR(S): SANDERS, WILLIS,
G.DAVIS
04/01/93 919 (H) COSPONSOR(S): B.DAVIS
04/05/93 1047 (H) COSPONSOR(S): DAVIES
04/06/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 173
SHORT TITLE: MUNI FEES & TAXATION OF CHARITABLE GAMES
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) LARSON
TITLE: "An Act exempting certain charitable gaming activity
from municipal sales and use taxes."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/24/93 433 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/24/93 433 (H) CRA, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
03/25/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
04/06/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 70
SHORT TITLE: STATE IMPACT AID FOR MUNICIPALITIES
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MACLEAN
TITLE: "An Act relating to state impact aid for
municipalities; and providing for an effective date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/18/93 101 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/18/93 101 (H) CRA, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
03/25/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
04/01/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
04/06/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 209
SHORT TITLE: COMMUNITY HEALTH AIDE GRANTS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES
TITLE: "An Act relating to community health aide grants."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/10/93 590 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
03/10/93 590 (H) CRA, STATE AFFAIRS, HES,
FINANCE
04/01/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-21, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIRMAN HARLEY OLBERG called the meeting to order at 1:08
p.m. He noted Representatives Willis, Davies and Sanders
were present.
HB 173: MUNI FEES & TAXATION OF CHARITABLE GAMES
Number 011
REPRESENTATIVE RON LARSON, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 173,
testified, "Last summer I was talking to one of my friends.
My friend had a problem...and he asked us to look into the
situation... In some ways we found that there are
conflicting statutes. One interpretation...is that they
(the city) was allowed to place a sales tax on the
nonprofits. The other was that the city should not place a
sales tax on it... What eventually happened then was the
business was moved out of the City of Palmer, because they
were interpreting the legislation one way, to the City of
Wasilla, where they interpreted the legislation another
way."
REPRESENTATIVE LARSON continued, "So this bill is basically
then just trying to set a policy that will be uniform for
all of the municipalities. ...Should the money raised by
charities be shared with municipalities or should the money
raised by charities be used for those charities in the
purposes that is expressed?... This bill (HB 173) will
basically exempt from municipal sales taxes those nonprofits
or charities who have the permit and who are also the
operator or the seller."
NUMBER 080
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES asked if the language (on line
nine of HB 173) "to the extent" could be substituted with
"if".
REPRESENTATIVE LARSON understood that language to mean "if
the activity was carried on by the person who has the permit
was also the one who was the operator".
CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked, "Would it be possible to operate your
own deal and also allow somebody to operate for you?"
Number 106
REPRESENTATIVE LARSON replied, "What we are trying to do is
narrow it down right here where the nonprofit or the
charity, the one who has the permit, is the only one exempt
from the sales tax."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG gave an example, "So if the charity was
running a bingo game and at the same time somebody else was
running dart toss for them for a fee, the dart toss would
not be exempt but the bingo game would, is the way I read
this. To the extent that the permittee who holds the permit
is actually conducting the activity."
REPRESENTATIVE LARSON concurred and added, "The state does
collect a sales tax on these activities. Those dollars then
go to the general fund and from the general fund they are
redistributed back to the municipalities. So municipalities
do get some revenue from these activities."
Number 133
RICK URION, LOBBYIST, CITY OF BETHEL, testified in
opposition to HB 173 saying, "On one hand the legislature is
restricting revenue sharing and municipal assistance and
then on the other hand, you are cutting back the municipal's
right to tax. We think this should be a local option and
not be dictated by the state. The City of Bethel receives
about ten percent of its sales tax from this type of
activity. Passage of this bill would seriously restrict the
ability of the city to provide the services it provides.
Maybe in your wisdom, if you think this is a good idea, you
could exempt the municipalities who already levy this tax."
Number 154
REPRESENTATIVE JERRY SANDERS asked if the City of Bethel
"gets about ten percent from this" and, "Is all the gaming
in Bethel covered by this? They lose the whole ten
percent?"
MR. URION replied, "That is my understanding, that is what
the city (Bethel) tells me, yes."
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked, "What fraction of their total
budget would that represent?"
MR. URION said, "I don't know what that is...it's about
$200,000 a year is what it amounts to."
Number 174
RON PAGENKOPF, JUNEAU YOUTH ACTIVITIES CO-OP, testified in
support of HB 173 saying, "There are basically two problems
that we have with a sales tax on gaming. One is that it is
recognized throughout almost every place in the United
States except Alaska, that a front end sales tax does not
work with gaming. It is not possible to collect that tax
from the player at the time of sale. The second problem we
have is that the boroughs, or the taxing authorities, want
to tax the same dollar four to five times rather than just
once." He then gave the committee examples of multiple
taxation of a dollar spent on gaming.
Representative Williams joined the committee at 1:17 and
Representative Toohey joined the committee at 1:18.
MR. PAGENKOPF continued, "Our proposal is, of course we
support this bill (HB 173) very heavily, but if they do wish
to tax us, tax us the way the state taxes. That is on the
difference between the price of the ticket and the winnings,
where we pay a three percent tax to the state. We also pay
a one percent tax to the state on the net revenue that we
receive from gaming... The thing that scares us is that as
the boroughs raise the sales tax, they will literally put us
out of business and the intent of the law was to raise money
for charity, was my understanding..." He then rendered
further examples.
Number 262
CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked, "Because you are a co-op then you are
subject to this tax?"
MR. PAGENKOPF said, "Everybody is subject to the tax
regardless of who you are. This (HB 173) would allow us not
to pay a sales tax because all we do is share a location."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG clarified, "Your primary objection is not to
this bill, but to the way the tax is imposed at the present
time... (HB 173) in effect would preclude the borough from
taxing you as they are now."
MR. PAGENKOPF concurred.
Number 298
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES MOVED to PASS HB 173 out of committee
with individual recommendations. There were no objections,
and the MOTION CARRIED.
Number 307
CHAIRMAN OLBERG called a short at ease from 1:21 to 1:23
p.m.
HB 209: COMMUNITY HEALTH AIDE GRANTS
Number 312
MYRA MUNSON, LOBBYIST, ALASKA NATIVE HEALTH BOARD, testified
in support of HB 209 saying, "The Community Health Aide
Training Program is a grant program supported by the state
to assist in a federal effort that supports over 400 health
aides throughout the rural villages of Alaska, providing
health care to the residents of the most remote and rural
communities of Alaska. All the salaries of those employees
are paid for by federal funds. The Alaska contribution to
sustaining that part of our health care system has been to
provide some training funds through a grant program that was
established in 1985."
MS. MUNSON continued, "In order to control the budget of
that program without anticipating the way things could
change over time, that grant program was established so that
the only eligible grantees were those corporations and
communities which were currently receiving federal funds and
currently employing health aides. That worked fine until
last year (1992) when in one region...Eastern Aleutian
Tribes formed and began receiving the federal funds to
provide the health aides. When they came to the state to
apply for the grant for training they were told, 'Sorry, you
are not eligible because you did not exist in 1985'."
MS. MUNSON continued further, "That was fixed for the first
year by an agreement of subcontracts between the two
organizations, but it had the effect of changing the amount
of funding that was available within the organization. We
worked with the Department of Health and Social Services to
try to come up with a minimal solution to that problem and
that is the bill that was introduced here (HB 209), that
provides a very technical change that says any organization
which is receiving the federal funds to provide Community
Health Aide Service can receive a grant, but we left in
place the limit on the size of that grant based on the
number of health aides that were employed in 1985. It
simply says, they had to be employed by some regional
organization, not necessarily the same organization, and it
reflects the tendency to form smaller organizations that can
provide better services in a local area."
MS. MUNSON concluded, "This bill (HB 209) is a very
technical solution to one of those glitches that develops as
time goes by..." She then addressed the zero fiscal note.
Number 381
REPRESENTATIVE CYNTHIA TOOHEY said, "I support this bill (HB
209). When Myra first came to me, there was some feeling
that this would create a large fiscal note...that apparently
has been straightened out. It does show that there is no
fiscal note with it..." She then asked, "Does this allow
other communities to tighten up if they had aides in place?"
MS. MUNSON said, "This bill (HB 209) will allow new programs
to come into existence and receive the funding. The
protection against diminishing the level of funding for any
program too much is that, only programs which can receive
the base funding, if the total were appropriated of $30,000,
(but) no one has ever gotten that full amount, is if they
had three health aides in 1985..."
Number 416
DEBORAH ERICKSON, HEALTH PROGRAM SPECIALIST II, DIVISION OF
PUBLIC HEALTH, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES,
testified in support of HB 209. "The department feels that
under self-determination these communities have the right to
choose who is going to be providing the services for them,
if they are going to provide the services for themselves.
Under the current statute it is not equitable in that if a
community, if a village decides to change the organization
that was providing services to them, under the Community
Health Aide Program in 1984, they would no longer be
eligible for state funds..."
Number 436
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked why HB 209, introduced by the
HESS Committee, will be referred to the HESS Committee.
MS. MUNSON said, "I was out of town. The bill (HB 209) went
to the speaker's office for referral and the speaker's staff
recognized that if the bill went into effect and the
legislature was to appropriate at the one hundred percent
appropriation level, which as I have indicated has never
occurred, there could be a possible fiscal impact..."
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY concurred, "We were not able to get a
hold of her to reassure the speaker's chamber that it was as
face value. So that is why the delay and long list of
referrals..."
Number 483
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY then MOVED that HB 209 be PASSED out
of committee with individual recommendations. There were no
objections, and the MOTION CARRIED.
Number 492
HJR 37: FED MONEY FOR RURAL WATER/SEWER PROJECTS
ROGER MCKOWAN, LEGISLATIVE STAFF TO REPRESENTATIVE LYMAN
HOFFMAN, testified on his behalf saying, "In the summer of
1990, nearly a quarter of the residents of the village of
Kotlik were victims of viral meningitis...I think we all
understand there are some very critical water and sewer
problems in rural Alaska. In an ongoing effort to identify
sources of funding for rectifying these situations,
Representative Hoffman has come into contact with HJR 1033
in Congress. This piece of legislation is sponsored by
Congressman Hayes of Louisiana and suggests that the federal
government should provide 300 million dollars a year for six
consecutive years...for constructing water and sewer
projects in economically depressed rural communities."
MR. MCKOWAN continued, "Under the intent currently
established in HJR 1033, the allotments would be made to the
states in the ratio which the population and economically
distressed rural communities of each state bears to the
total population in economically distressed rural
communities of all the states... In a 1990 report to
Congress, the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency)
estimated that 74 percent of the nation's Native wastewater
problems were located in the state of Alaska."
MR. MCKOWAN continued further, "The governor has asked for
26 million dollars for village safe water through the DEC...
Should HJR 1033 pass...the state of Alaska would qualify for
45 million dollars. It is a 90 percent federal match, so
rather than go in and have to spend 26 million dollars in
general funds to accomplish (less)...it is my understanding,
that the state, through Village Safe Water dollars, could go
in with five million dollars, purchase 45 million more
dollars, through the federal government, accomplish all the
projects that are listed...on this prioritized list and save
the state 20 million dollars approximately, in general fund
dollars..."
Number 560
REPRESENTATIVE ED WILLIS pointed out that a Glennallen
water/sewer project was on the governor's priority list. (A
copy of this list may be found in the House Community and
Regional Affairs Committee Room, Capitol Room 126, and after
the adjournment of the second session of the 18th Alaska
State Legislature, in the Legislative Reference Library.)
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked if the governor's priority list
included population considerations.
Number 578
KEITH KELTON, DIRECTOR, DIVISION FACILITY CONSTRUCTION
OPERATION, ALASKA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION,
indicated that materials providing this information had been
distributed to legislators. He added, "We are very much in
support of HJR 37... HJR 1033 is the first comprehensive
attempt to try to provide grants for those smaller
communities which are unable to afford the loan programs...
We think it would be a very good tool to have in the box
with rural communities... This is just one of the possible
sources of revenue and a very attractive option at this
time, and the timing on this is very good."
Number 630
CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked about the dollar sign notation on the
governor's priority list.
MR. KELTON explained, "The dollar figures that are shown on
there relate to basically two programs. It is either a
match with the U.S. Public Health Service on projects where
we are going in jointly, or the Environmental Protection
Agency has had a very limited program called the Indian Set
Aside Program where basically half of one percent of the
total federal appropriation for wastewater has been
available for Indian Set Aside Projects. ...The total
identified need is over 1.2 billion dollars for rural
Alaska, so we have a long ways to go unless we get a steady
sustained source of funding, and we are looking at the
federal government to pick up part of it."
Number 651
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "Again, is there any limit on
the amount of people in a village that precludes the fact
that they can have a sewer system? If you have ten people
that set up camp in Iditarod, does that equate to a fact
that they can have a sewer and water system?"
MR. KELTON said, "That is a very good question and one we
have wrestled with for years. The way we have addressed
that is the priority list that is handed out is developed
through a series of evaluation criteria...obviously, those
that have the bigger problem associated with a larger
population are going to be at the top of the list. So we
are addressing the bigger needs and if we ever get down to
the point where we are talking about ten people, then
perhaps we will have a real question to answer..."
Number 678
REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS MOVED that HJR 37 be moved out of
committee with individual recommendations. There were no
objections, and the MOTION CARRIED.
ADJOURNMENT
CHAIRMAN OLBERG adjourned the meeting at 1:53 p.m.
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